David Crowder, a club tour, and alchohol

So, you may or may not know that David Crowder keeps a blog. It doesn’t get much attention when the band goes out on tour, but when everybody’s home, he updates it fairly often.

I enjoy reading his whit and humor, so I’ve enjoyed the recent increase in posts…

Today I read a post from one week ago that I thought was especially interesting. The title of the post is ‘questions answered‘. It’s mostly silly answers to questions submitted to the band through the website, blogs, myspace, etc…

But one question is particularly interesting, and Crowder’s response is pretty strong. Have a look:

question 6: “i went to the show in cincinatti and there was alcohol being served. i was shocked that it was being served at a christian concert. can you tell me why it was being served?”

yes. i’m pretty sure that the bar was selling alcohol because it is a bar and that’s what bars sell. they typically like to make money and so they buy things, such as beers, from a distributor for a certain price and then mark it up to sell to people so that they will get a profit and get to pay their employees and get to stay open and such. alcohol is usually a pretty big seller for bars. i am sorry this was shocking.

i might add, both historically and currently, there are many people who love jesus, and follow him, that also enjoy alcohol regularly. if you have not encountered these people first hand, you should attempt to enlarge your peer circle and i think you’ll get a clearer picture of the diversity of the body of christ. there are denominations and traditions that denounce alcohol, and there are those that condone it. these beliefs are typically culturally specific and attached to a particular sect’s interpretations of a few particular passages in scripture. i should state here that we, as a band and as individuals, do not, in any way, condone drunkenness, as it is stupid, nor under-aged drinking as it is also stupid and against the law, and trust that those in attendance at various dates on our club tour are intelligent enough to arrive at both of these conclusions as well. it is not very difficult to observe the damaging effects of abusing alcohol. it is simple that way; abuse it, it abuses you back, most of the time immediately.

(an aside: in my experience, most conversations about alcohol with those who adamantly reject it as a possible beverage choice, present that it could cause a brother to stumble. this is awful logic. apply this logic to various food items ordered at your next public meal. there will doubtlessly be present various numbers of people who struggle with obesity or high cholesterol or heart disease, who would really love one of your cheesesticks. there will also be those present who are vegetarian, myself included, who are attempting to not ingest meat. i’m sure you see the trouble with this line of thinking. this was the very argument that peter and paul were having regarding idol meat. i will not attempt further argument here since there is plenty to find out there, if one were truly curious, that would present things in a much more scholarly and organized manner than i could hope to present it. i will also state here that i shall not require you to cease your carnivorous ways while sharing a restaurant with me.)

and finally, i should state the reasons we went on a tour that had as its venues bars and clubs exclusively. we wished for the story of god to be experienced beyond the safety of our cloistered church environments. it was our deep hope that many who would not frequent a bar would come join us and experience the reality of the presence of god in an environment that they might not typically suspect to experience such a thing in. we believe, if we are reading scripture correctly, that once the veil was torn, that in an instant, suddenly, god was everywhere. the symbolism and consequences of this moment are epic! the way human beings access the maker of heaven and earth were forever changed. suddenly, once and for all, through the ultimate sacrificial offering, suddenly, he is everywhere. every second is lived in the very presence of god. there is no moment that is not holy. there is no space that is not sacred. it is the awareness of our reality that shifts, not this reality. therefore, all that is needed is for our awareness to change and we begin to view spaces and people and cultures and music and art and eating and drinking and sleeping and waking as moments and spaces and places where god is already active and present. our hope on this tour was to give people a physical, tangible experience of this reality.

What do you think?

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7 Responses

  1. I like crowder.

  2. .i dont know man..i think hes a little off here..while i agree that you can drink as long as you dont get drunk and i dont drink at all he said a couple things.he brings up the point of stumbling your brother and also says that people take that scripture out of context and i think he did, he makes a wierd statement of being in a restaurant..thats not even close..the bible actually says not to stumble your “brother” not just everybody in public..thats a big difference..of course you dont wanna make anybody stumble but can you really stumble those who are lost?.especially since usually when i am in a restaurant i know that there’s really not a good chance of it being full of “true” born again believers.but if you know a “brother” used to be an alcoholic and here you are having a beer in front of him, YES that can cause him to stumble..the other statement was of the veil being torn..god was already everywhere before that.the only difference is the animal sacrifices were taken away since the ultimate sacrifice was made, and he kinda said that but i think this guy is a little off..i mean did god not hear people all over the world before that?i’d love to hear what he says about other things.

  3. Interesting thoughts, John.

    I hope I’ll have some time to respond this week :0)

  4. Rather than trying to support the view of Christians drinking in moderation using scripture, only opinion and man’s logic is used. This is very dangerous, as man is certainly not the final authority concerning these things. I will post scripture to aid anyone else who may read this blog. The truth is in the scriptures; do not allow this blog to give you the green light to drink. There is one lawgiver and one Judge (James 4:12), obey His Words.

    We are to be sober (2 Cor 5:13; 1 Thess. 5:6-8, 1 Tim 3:2; Titus 1:8; Titus 2:2,4,6,12; 1 Peter 1:13; 1 Peter 4:7). “Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: (1 Peter 5:8)”. Studies show that even one drink can impair our thinking and judgment. (http://alcoholism.about.com/library/weekly/aa021109a.htm)

    Abstain from the appearance of evil: “Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. Abstain from all appearance of evil” (1 Thess. 5:21-22).

    Abstain from anything that would make a brother sin or stumble themselves. What if by your drinking another younger Christian decides its okay to drink? What if they cannot drink in “moderation”? (Drinking can not only harm your body but also those around you (1 Corinthians 6:19)). “It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak” (Romans 1:21).

    Is it not your flesh that drives you to drink? “Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;” (1 Pet. 2:11)

    “Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise” (Pro. 20:1).

    (Proverbs 23:29-32, Isaiah 28:7-8, Galatians 5:19-21)

    Resource (http://www.housetohouse.com/hth/biblequestions/archive/question0029.htm)

    In Jesus,
    Daniel
    (1 Corinthians 6:9-10)

  5. David Crowder is a genius and a mighty man of God! I’m glad he made this point. I’d love to have a beer with him!

  6. inhisname,
    I am truly sorry you believe that you are holier than Jesus who gave us wine that our hearts might be glad. (Psalm 104:15) I am also pretty sure He commanded us to drink wine(Matthew 26:27ff; Mark 14:23) or do we seek to change scripture according to the economic agenda of Dr. Charles Welch?

    Now the bible says be sober, I agree, but we are not talking about drunkenness here we are talking about responsible drinking. I also agree that there are certain times when it is not ok to drink, because certain brothers who are weaker in the faith, and important point of Paul’s exhortation, might fall into sin. Clearly I would not take a former alcoholic into a barroom ministry, just as I would not take a former fornicator, into a ministry at a brothel.

    This is where David Crowder’s argument makes sense, if you and I were out eating and you eating some cheesy fries were to cause me to sin then you would not eat them around me, giving no credence to my thought of its sinfulness, they are not of course. It would be like saying that the internet is sin, it is not, though it can me used for sin. To quote Martin Luther “Men can go wrong with wine and women. Shall we prohibit and abolish women also?” Taking your unbiblical view of the passages you quoted that is just what we should do. Hence we must look at all of scripture and not just the parts that agree with our own theology. We must agree that wine and strong drink are permitted by God (Deuteronomy 14:26), but we must not abuse them (Proverbs 20:1).

    You cause the grass to grow for the livestock and plants for man to cultivate, that he may bring forth food from the earth and wine to gladden the heart of man, oil to make his face shine and bread to strengthen man’s heart. – Psalm 104:14-15

    Grace and Peace.
    Lautensack

  7. drink, no drink? eat, no eat ? stumble, no stumble?agree, disagree? law, freedom? believe , unbelief? righteous , selfrighteous, unrighteous? unity, diversity, division? understanding, dissent? sin, sinful, sinner, sinless? logic, reason, faith, hope, love?
    May God help us!

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